'Grapes Of Wrath' Revisited

 

UPDATE: Flopping Aces has the Fox news video

Finally, the damning images that prove that Hezbollah terrorist militiamen dressed in civilian clothes, who seem to have gathered an inordinate amount of support in Lebanon, have indeed been using civilian, mostly Christian neighborhoods as shields against Israeli attacks, and hiding and using weapons in a densely populated area.

The exclusive photographs smuggled out of Lebanon, were obtained by the Australian News Ltd. and published by their Sunday Mail here, and Sunday Herald Sun here. Why am I not surprised...

The Melbourne man who smuggled the shots out of Beirut told yesterday how he was less than 400m from the block when it was obliterated.

``Hezbollah came in to launch their rockets, then within minutes the area was blasted by Israeli jets,'' he said.

``Until the Hezbollah fighters arrived, it had not been touched by the Israelis. Then it was totally devastated.

``After the attacks they didn't even allow the ambulances or the Lebanese Army to come in until they had cleaned the area, removing their rockets and hiding other evidence.

I am sorry for the horrific human suffering created in the bombing of Qana, southern Lebanon today, but if these people do not care for human life they endanger, why should Israel sacrifice their own which they do care about? Hezbollah has been using Qana as a base for launching hundreds of rockets at Israel, happily waiting for the bitter memory of the Operation Grapes of Wrath propaganda to do their dirty work for them. The people there should be horrified and disgusted at what Hezbollah are doing, and at the inability and unwillingness of their own cowardly Government to disarm Hezbollah, instead of allowing the MSM to portray Hezbollah as some kind of liberating heroes. Israel cannot be held accountable for loss of life in these circumstances.

Why is Israel to blame now? After all, Hezbollah has been planning this for six years...Enough already.

"If the military cards Israel is holding do not improve with the continuation of the fighting, it will result in a diplomatic solution that will leave the Hezbollah rocket arsenal in southern Lebanon in its place. The diplomatic solution will necessarily be a reflection of the military realities on the ground." Despite the U.S. more than willing to help, if Israel does not give them the military cards of some strong holds, they will be unable to do much more than the usual UN peacekeeping toothless 'stop or I'll say stop again' tactics, this time involving the French forces, and the Lebanese army. It is therefore imperative that they clear up as much territory from Hezbollah as possible, given that the lame diplomatic solution is breathing down their necks as we speak.

The only people to blame are the Hezbollah who use civilians as human shields for their rocket launchers, the UN who turn a blind eye, and the Lebanese Government who did not stand up to Hezbollah and its growing support on their own turf allowing a terrorist organization to take a stronghold inside its own sovereignty.

And for any of you who still march with the 'moral equivalence brigade', you should watch this "exactly once".

Comments

[Saul Davis]

GD: Do you feel you have to get the last word in because you want to be posted as the last respondent, or is it because you just want to be last one standing?

[Ghost Dansing]

Thanks for the insight antimedia...by all means, carry on!

[antimedia]

As far as independently vetting - are you really serious? What do you suppose I was doing when I wrote the Gaubatz series? I made phone calls, sent emails and talked to various people - some off the record - some on background. I'll be doing more of the same for an upcoming story I'm working on. My phone works exactly the same as the alphabets'.

[antimedia]

Ghost, the entire point is that those stories would never have seen the light of day without the blogosphere pushing them forward. As far as the Rathergate story goes, you're way off base. The blogosphere did try to track down the source. They're the ones who found the guy in Amarillo who started the whole thing, tracking him down through his Kinkos printouts.

The Bush Guard story has never been fully reported, and the MSM still claims that his record cannot be substantiated, that he received special treatment and that he was AWOL, all three of which are outright, provably false.

Eason Jordan - you missed on that one entirely, bud. Wrong story. Wrong time frame.

Another example - the Dave Gaubatz story has never been fully covered.

The Plamegate story - the press got it completely wrong from the beginning and continues to get it wrong.

There are so many examples it's not even worth arguing about.

Read Patterico's "The Power of the Jump" articles.

Get a clue.

[Ghost Dansing]

"PLACING BLAME: THE OVERVIEW; CBS DISMISSES 4 OVER BROADCAST ON BUSH SERVICE"
By JACQUES STEINBERG AND BILL CARTER (NYT) 3135 words
Published: January 11, 2005

"THE 2004 CAMPAIGN: THE NEWS MEDIA; Network Says It Will Check Questions On Bush" Files
By JIM RUTENBERG and KATE ZERNIKE
September 16, 2004

Let's see...when I checked the archive at the NYT, there are at least 10 pages of HTML listing and gisting articles about "Rathergate". It was pretty much a blow-by-blow coverage.

If you are saying that the BLOGS instigated the issue, you are right...but they instigated by allegations that were never proven...the investigation concluded that they were unable to prove the authenticity of the memorandums...not that the memorandums were not authentic. The speed at which the Republican BLOGOSPHERE concluded the memorandums to be fakes was also suspicious.

Also, the overall report was never discredited, including one telling example: The secretary that said the memorandums were not the real thing, because she thought that she would have typed them, also indicated that the tale they told was essentially correct...a fine point frequently missed in the effort to discredit the story.

No one ever explored the possiblility that the memorandums were in fact a plant designed to trip-up the CBS reporting either...why didn't the Republican BLOGOSPHERE delve into the memo's true origins? Not convenient to the spin they were up to?

"Friendly Fire: The Birth of an Anti-Kerry Ad"
By KATE ZERNIKE and JIM RUTENBERG
Published: August 20, 2004

"After weeks of taking fire over veterans' accusations that he had lied about his Vietnam service record to win medals and build a political career, Senator John Kerry shot back yesterday, calling those statements categorically false and branding the people behind them tools of the Bush campaign."

Once again, plenty of MSM coverage...Republican BLOGOSPHERE involved in circulating allegations in a "dirty-trick" operations right out of Karl Rove's playbook...nothing ever proven...United States Navy never revoked any awards, and the irony was that the Veterans that participated were not only stabbing a fellow Combat Veteran in the back, they were indicting the system by which their own awards were awarded.

The truth of the allegations never mattered...it was all about floating the lie long enough to do political damage...the fact-free blogosphere, where a lie floats as well as a fact is a perfect tool for partisan political operatives, because there are no professional checks-and-balances like there are in the mainstream, and BS can be circulated widely with a click of the mouse...acting kinda like a nasty chain letter that travels from coast to coast before someone stops it.

"The News We Kept To Ourselves"
By EASON JORDAN (NYT) 808 words
Published: April 11, 2003

ATLANTA - Over the last dozen years I made 13 trips to Baghdad to lobby the government to keep CNN's Baghdad bureau open and to arrange interviews with Iraqi leaders. Each time I visited, I became more distressed by what I saw and heard -- awful things that could not be reported because doing so would have jeopardized the lives of Iraqis, particularly those on our Baghdad staff.

Not sure what the point was with this example...plenty of coverage in the MSM...Republican BLOGOSPHERE got a whipping boy because this Republican adminstration wanted to tell everybody what a bad man was Saddam Hussein?

Big deal...Republican administrations supported Saddam Hussein going back decades...see the internet picture of Rumsfeld shaking Saddams hand, then look up the memorandum he was carrying from the White House...after Saddam had used chemicals on the Kurds.

Laugh away...the blogosphere has some good stuff, but there is also a lot of sewage flowing through the pipes...and I don't mean everything is "sewage" that I don't agree with...

The BLOGOSPHERE is a perfect media for propaganda...get your "news" here at your own peril. The BLOGOSPHERE is also being factored-in within the context of its ability to impact politics, and the media...however in some cases it might be a one-trick pony. The "Swift-Boat" story has already become known as "Swift-Boating" and has the connotation of being a political scam. I've already seen similar stories dismissed as "Swift Boating"...what I'm saying is it might not work a second time.

As I said before, I don't know of any BLOG that has its own cadre of reporters, editing staffs, and broadcast infrastructure that can independently compete with the MSM. (We really have to define MSM as well...is the Jerusalem Post part of the MSM?) I don't know any of these people who can verify anything independently, that is, with their own people, their own investigations, and internal vetting processes.

The BLOGOSPHERE is at best about good punditry on the affairs of the day, at worst it is a tool in the Political Operative's tool bag.

[Kenny Pierce]

Ghost,

Another example of the fallacy of emphasis: if all stories that can be spun to the President's discredit appear on Page 1 of the NYT, while all stories that however grudingly must be admitted to show him succeeding at something are relegated to page A33, then it does you no good whatsoever to say, "Hey, the Times isn't biased; it covered both stories, after all."

Or again: a local paper runs a hit job on the home town university's worst rival, and includes factual inaccuracies emblazoned in big letters on the front page. A week later they run a small-print correction on page 17. Would you say that the small-print correction counts for as much as the front-page story, or would you think that the newspaper was exhibiting bias against a local rival?

[Kenny Pierce]

Ghost,

The problem is, the complaints about MSM liberal bias are largely accusations of two kinds of dishonesty, neither of which accusations you're refuting.

1. The fallacy of emphasis. If we say you are guilty of the fallacy of emphasis, that doesn't mean you refuse to cover one side at all. It simply means that you are violating a particular basic principle of intellectual integrity. That principle is that the amount of attention paid to a particular fact, should be in reasonable proportion to the importance of that fact. In the context of news reporting, if there are two events that are equally important but one gets far more coverage than the other, then you are seeing bad reporting -- "bias," that is.

By far the most common bias is bias toward the theatrical. We all understand that if there are two explosions and one of them kills fifteen people with no blood while the other one kills ten people but provides lots of spectacular footage, the media will focus on the one with the spectacular footage. But there is also, certainly, ideological bias: it is absolutely laughable to think that Mary Mapes and Dan Rather would have rushed to screen with patently forged documents in an attempt to discredit John Kerry, for example.

In the particular case of Islamist terrorism, the two biases I've mentioned are actually combined by deliberate design -- though not by the deliberate design of the media. Instead it is by deliberate design of the terrorists, who are waging a very conscious propaganda war. Terrorists intentionally use children as shields by preference, because they know that the media will leap at a chance to use a headline referring to "dead children" much faster than they will run to cover a story about "dead thirty-year-old men who were holding machine guns when they died." And not only does the media go along with this manipulation, but they also have historically written the story in such a way as to emphasize that "the Israelis killed sixteen children" rather than that "Hezbollah chose to turn a school with a hundred children into a launching ground for rockets."

Thus for you to point at a single story here and there that goes against the grain, is no refutation of a charge of consistent fallacy of emphasis. I encourage to you meditate a bit more on the quote I posted earlier: the plural of "anecdote" is not "data."

2. A story can readily be slanted by a skilled reporter simply by choice of non-neutral terminology -- or by the use of morally neutral terminology to describe someone who is clearly not morally neutral. Take, for example, the aftermath of an Israeli air strike, as it presents itself to the Western reporter's eye once Hezbollah has had a chance to clean up and restage things and has finally let you in to see it. And there you see a dead and (at least now) unarmed man in civilian clothes, killed when an Israeli missile struck his house. Now, since Hezbollah has control of the scene of the alleged war crime, the scene must be considered hopelessly contaminated from the standpoint of evidence. And therefore the only purely factual way to refer to the corpse in question is "a Lebanese." Say there are ten such corpses lying around; then an honest and purely factual headline would read, "Ten Lebanese Killed."

But that's not what the headline will probably say. It will probably say, "Ten Civilians Killed." Now, whenever you use the phrase "civilian" to refer to some dead Lebanese body that didn't still have gun in hand when Hezbollah allowed you in to look over a carefully scrubbed "war crime" scene, then you are, as a reporter, implicitly stating both a moral premise and a factual judgment.

The moral premise is that people who deliberately choose to kill civilians, should be condemned. Now, I happen to agree with that moral premise -- but under that same moral premise, Hezbollah is clearly a terrorist organization. If you're going to emphasize the moral premise by using the term civilian whenever Israeli attacks cause collateral damage, then you can't de-emphasize the moral premise in the next story by refusing to call Hezbollah fighters and leaders "terrorists." If we're going to use the term "civilian" in order to drag in its moral connotations when doing so can make Israel look bad, then we have to also use the term "terrorist" to make sure Israel's enemies are held to the same implicit moral standard. But I can guaran-damn-tee you that Reuters, who self-righteously refuse to use the term "terrorist" because they don't want to "take sides morally," takes every opportunity to use the term "civilian" to describe Lebanese casualties. Which makes them contemptibly dishonest.

The factual judgment is that you can trust Hezbollah when they tell you these people were civilians. Since no sane person actually trusts Hezbollah, if you go ahead and run the story under the headline, "Ten Civilians Killed," then you are taking sides, and doing so based on bias, not evidence.

These aren't really great examples but again I'm just grabbing something off the top of my head.

[antimedia]

Ghost writes

Again, I point out...there is little in the blogosphere, short of outright fabrication, that isn't covered in the Liberal MSM.

I had to wait a while before responding to this because I was laughing so hard.

Rathergate
The Swift Vets
Eason Jordan

These three stories alone refute you.

[Kenny Pierce]

Crusader,

"Under what conditions are enemy non-combatants made acceptable targets of war?"

1. Technical answer, short form: Never.

2. Technical answer, expanded to avoid misunderstanding: Non-combatants as such are never acceptable targets, but it is entirely possible for the distinction between the two to become either objectively or subjectively meaningless.

The distinction becomes objectively meaningless when the enemy themselves fail to make the distinction. A husband and wife who of their own free will invite Hezbollah to install rocket launchers in the room next to their bedroom, have chosen to be combatants (though their infant children have not). An "anti-war" American college student who chooses to go take up a position as a human shield for Hezbollah's military installations, has chosen to be something that is not exactly a combatant but certainly is not a non-combatant (it being patently clear that Hezbollah is an aggressive terrorist organization that will use those military installations in order deliberately to target non-combatants themselves). If the people of a neighborhood know perfectly well that a Hezbollah or a Hamas deliberately uses them as human shields and deliberately targets civilians from behind said shields, and yet those people overwhelmingly vote for Hezbollah and do everything they can do to ensure that Hezbollah remains armed and in power, they again destroy by their own actions the essential distinction between combatant and non-combatant, especially since Hezbollah targets civilians. If Hezbollah is using you as a human shield, and you ratify its actions by voting for it, then you lose the right to claim non-combatant status because you are by your own actions attempting to abolish the distinction.

The distinction becomes subjectively meaningless when your enemy attempts to make it impossible, and succeeds in making it impossible, for you to be able to tell by any external signs which people are genuinely combatants and which are not. If Hezbollah goes to a family and says, "Let us put a rocket launcher in your bedroom or we'll shoot you right here and now," then that family remains a noncombatant family -- but if you're fighting Hezbollah, you have absolutely no way to tell which rocket-launcher equipped houses are owned by combatants and which are not. (As an example, see this Lebanese blog post, coming to you by way of The Big Pharaoh, who in his enthusiastic use of sarcasm is a man after my own heart.)

Once you cannot distinguish between the people who want to kill you and the people who don't, then you have only two real choices: kill a bunch of people on the other side who don't want to kill you, or let lots of innocents on your own side die at the hands of the ones who do.

I think we ought to be doing a few basic things preemptively, though I don't know enough about the area to be terribly specific about tactics (as opposed to broad strategy). (1) We should have a major propaganda push to the Arab world hammering home relentlessly the point that terrorists are cowards who hide behind women and children and that they deliberately do everything they can to ensure that as many of their own people as possible will die. (2) We should tell the Arab world over and over -- before conflict starts -- that we hate killing civilians, and that we hate terrorism precisely because terrorists force us either to let them kill innocent women and children, or else to see innocent women and children die when we kill the terrorists. And that it is for the sake of the innocent Arab women and children that we hate terrorists so much. (3) But all the same, we need to hammer home both by word and deed that we @#$! well will kill terrorists whenever we locate them, even if they take their human shields with them; so that every Arab who gives support and encouragement to terrorist organizations, is helping those terrorists arrange for the death of innocent women and children.

And then every time somebody complains to us about "civilian" deaths in a situation like this one, we hold our philosophical ground and keep saying, as forcibly as we can, "Their blood is on Hezbollah's head, and this is precisely why every Lebanese who has helped Hezbollah stay in power, has helped make this terrible day inevitable. And the longer the Lebanese people support Hezbollah, the more Lebanese people will die -- not because we want to kill them, but because Hezbollah chooses to make war in a way that maximizes the deaths of the very people it claims to defend."

This does not relieve us of the responsibility to take into account what percentage of the civilians in the targeted areas are complicit and which are not, nor to choose tactics that allow as many civilians as possible to escape, by the way. We choose to make that distinction because, except where truly perverse cultures like that of Imperial Japan or that of southern Lebanon have made the very distinction all but meaningless, the distinction is a real distinction and we are moral not just so that other people will treat us morally, but because it is the right thing to do.

But it does mean that when there is no way to distinguish combatants from non-combatants, then you cannot make use of tactics that involve only killing combatants; and when the "non-combatants" are people who delight, and are complicit, in attempted genocide, they have no claim on our pity; and when the people we are fighting are people who will never stop killing until they themselves are killed, then the scales of consequences will take a very large amount of non-combatant collateral damage before the balance shifts.

I don't think I explained that very well, and the logic needs tightening up and has lots of loose ends, but I'm writing at high speed here.

[Ghost Dansing]

Well...I must say...this is quite the spat! :)

I was just thinking how this resembles an "argument" I had years ago with a friend about some point in the Bible...we went away, and came back the next day with our Bibles...we had both chosen the same passage to make our point.

For any "evidence" you show from the MSM to make your point about a particular bias, I can show you one that shows an opposite bias, or no bias, and all stood side by side, one sees the Liberal MSM...where you get multiple perspectives.

I've done this a couple times here without specifically pointing it out...simply showing how the NYT had covered a topic that was supposedly being shrugged-off by the notorious "MSM"...and showing how there seem to be people out there that think the "MSM" is absolutely biased toward Israel in the latest matter...I wonder how that could be? I'll bet they all have their references.

I was listening to your friend Anderson Cooper today interviewing my friend David Horovitz from the Jerusalem Post...

Anderson, of course, being from the American MSM was being biased against Israel (I say that sarcastically) and David was setting him strait.

Or would you believe, Anderson Cooper was interviewing the rabid anti-semite, David Horovitz, who was praising the hisballa in their valiant efforts to resist the Israeli forces in Lebanon? That biased Anderson Cooper!

Again, I point out...there is little in the blogosphere, short of outright fabrication, that isn't covered in the Liberal MSM.

The transcript between Cooper and Horovitz will be posted here:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/acd.html

I was listening to the radio...I think they said Horowitz, but they definitely said Jerusalem Post...I think it was Horovitz.

David is only my "friend" metaphorically... I was just jealous because Alexandra knows so many people. :)

[weekenderman]

I think Dr. Vega might be a protologist, Foo.

[Foo, The Pirate]

Dr. De La Vega (Zorro?),

Your etymology sucks. You seem to take pleasure in hiding behind pseudo-intelectualism (what are you a doctor of? podology?).
Many, many cities in Israel are called kfar (kfarim, in the plural). Many of the more affluent neighbourhoods are called kfarim, and you will find (if you ever take your head out of your ass) places like Kfar Vradim (Village of Roses), Kfar HaMaccabiah (Village of the Macabees, the israeli olympic center), Kfar Blum (Blum Village)...so go sell your pseudo-erudition to someone who will buy it.

[Crusader.NoRegrets.]

Ghost,

ergo "if you want to debate the ME intelligently, best to leave out the content of the MSM" as before...

Under what conditions are enemy non-combatants made acceptable targets of war? This is a genuine question for you all, for aren't the "civilians" in Lebanon effectively being used for propaganda purposes by the enemy (in fact their central strategic use) and thus have been brought into the fray? Or perhaps they lend material, logistic and moral support for the enemy.

It just seems the longer the ME disease continues, the less and less I believe there are any innocent civilians (and before my Israeli friends go nuts on me, your enemies already fight under those conditions. Why not avail yourselves of same?)

Like I've said before, at what point do we look on dead 10-year olds and say "well, those are Jihadis we won't have to kill in a firefight 10 years from now"?

I mean Hizb'allah and Hamas HAVE pledged eternal war against the Jews have they not? That means their 10-year olds are already being prepped to enter the war, no?

[weekenderman]

By the way, why don't you try debating Alexandra on these points, RL?

Oh yeah, it's because you'd rather attack the messenger than debate the actual message.

Besides, Alexandra would turn you inside out with just a look from her beautiful face. :)

[Kenny Pierce]

Whatever Doc Vega is, he isn't enough of a linguist to know what the "root fallacy" is.

[weekenderman]

I've never before even whispered a word of my eschatological views on any blog, RL, and yet YOU are accusing ME of violating the ninth commandment by bearing false witness?

Methinks thou shouldst look in a mirror, and you might notice a log in your eye!

By the way, Hezbollah is a terrorist organization, no matter how anyone pronounces their name.

[RL]

Dr. de la vega,

You shouldn't be surprised, the "brilliant" Israeli zionists don't even know how to pronounce hezbollah correctly.

Bad eschatology armageddonman (aka: weekendman),

You won't find a single word concerning Biblical eschatology at Max Lucado's personal website, nor at the Doctrinal-statement at the website of the Church where he is the Senior Pastor. i'm not surprised that you would disregard, disrespect, and violate the Ninth Commandment of The Decalogue by being a false witness against him. Would you please be so kind as to stop trying to impose your blood-thirsty, warped, and vulgar view of eschatology on us ?

decipherthecode.com
(available at, equip.org)

[John Sarich]

Now the Israeli's have released photos of the bombed building still standing 8 hours after the attack. It appears that this entire episode is fabriacted by Hezbullah. One aspect of Hezbullah is that they intimidate the civilian population to make it appear that they have support. When warned to leave an area, the civilians cannot leave because if they do they will be shot by Hezbullah.

Further, as you look at the photos of demonstrations, civilians, and the poor suffering, take note of how many are what is termed MMA - Men of Military Age. MMA's because of the type of warfare used by terrorists, should all be considered a combatant. The MSM needs to get this through their thick skulls.

[Alexandra]

Liquid good link. Thanks

[Alexandra]

Ghost,

Whilst you might be doing word searches on the word 'MSM' on ATB, and have discovered that I slam them in almost every post, what you are not doing at all is reading any of the links provided which go to support the claims I make. In order to answer you I would simply be repeating my posts again and again, and providing the links which you already have in abundance.

Perhaps starting with my friend Anderson Cooper's article, the link which I provided to you in my previous comment, I know you did not read, nor did you read Nic Anderson's admission, again provided for you. It is a dangerous habit you often portray, which is to be convinced of something so deeply that any evidence someone else provides you simply ignore.

For a liberal or for that matter anyone, to truly believe that the MSM is not biased, your blinkers would have to be permanently on and you would have to make sure you do not read any evidence to the contrary. If indeed you do read the evidence, you could not possibly believe what you seem to be convinced of, regardless of your political leanings.

Everything we discuss comes from somewhere...even "controversial things" like finding WMD in Iraq...because the much aligned MSM even reports on things that are controversial.

Now I KNOW you don't read any of my links! LOL

[Dr Victorino de la Vega]

Nice try, Doc; but you've confused the word "kfar" (or "kafr") with the Arabic "kuffir,".

Dear Barry, Ghost, Marc et al.,

I believe you’re wrong.

The Hebrew tribes who conquered the land of Canaan under the leadership of Joshua were haughty Bedouins: Israelite invaders viewed themselves as “aristocratic nomads” and despised Canaanite “sedentary villagers” called “Kephérîm” in Aramaic and Hebrew…

Hence the word “Kfâr”, a racist word which means “village” or the dwelling of “inferior peasants” and other “ignorant gentiles”.

As mentioned earlier, this original Jewish concept was later adapted and adopted by Islamic fundamentalists the world over in its Arabized form: “Al-Kâffer” which translates as “dirty Infidel”.

Your moralistic use of the worn-out concept of “anti-Semitism” is quite ridiculous…

FYI, I’m a complete agnostic of Christian upbringing.

I only believe in Athens’ humanist philosophy and Rome’s rational-legal polity, which constitute the bedrock of our civilization.

I have absolutely no sympathy whatsoever for rightwing white supremacist ideologies, nor for radical Islamic fundamentalism, a sinister Middle-Eastern school of thought based mainly on the first five books of the Hebrew Bible (a.k.a. “The Torah”) and the bigoted Talmudic Law of Babylon…

[Ghost Dansing]

Alexandra, don't go crazy, it's not worth the effort...you have a nice mind just the way it is.

Why didn't you just say "...The people there should be horrified and disgusted at what Hezbollah are doing, and at the inability and unwillingness of their own cowardly Government to disarm Hezbollah..." and leave it at that.

A large chunk of the people in Lebanon, and Syria, and elsewhere think Nasrallah is a hero...that's a fact and the MSM reports it. The fact doesn't change if MSM doesn't report it, and I saw evidence CNN and others were trying hard to find signs of rifts between the people/government and hisballa...because that is what the Israelis were hoping for...but it wasn't there, so they can't report it. For whatever reason...

The Lebanese government (of which hisballa is a part) is weak politically with heavy influence by Syria and Iran, and weak militarily...unable to confront hisballa in order to enforce the UN resolution to disarm...assuming they could generate the the popular support to do it (see paragraph above).

Israel thinks/thought an effective, devastating military campaign might a. weaken hisballa...maybe even destroy it, and b. affect support for hisballa, at least among Christians, Sunnis and Druze...if not the Shia.

I've seen reflections of all of this in the MSM and more.

I said before, undermining the Free Press in America is a constant drumbeat of modern Republicanism...just as constant harping on the Judiciary and "Liberal Judges". There is control of both the Executive and Legislative Branches of the American Government by the Republicans, and Dubya has consitantly sought to undermine the oversight of the Legislative in all kinds of ways.

Harping on the shortcomings of the UN is also a hallmark of modern Republican propaganda...usually ridiculing the "peace" organization when it doesn't have the teeth to enforce the peace, and ridiculing the UN when it stands against the position of a Superpower.

Harping on the MSM is a Republican tactic to reinforce disbelief in the MSM in the "true believers" who then look for their own conduits for information that reinforces their own opinions, as opposed to being exposed to untidy facts in the Liberal media.

I did a wordsearch and you slam the MSM in almost every article. The real fact is that the entire BLOGOSPHERE depends on the full spectrum of reporting in the MSM to have any insight into what's going on anywhere.

I don't know of any blogger that has his/her own network of news reporters, telecommunications broadcast systems, and information vetting policies that would allow independent work.

Everything we discuss comes from somewhere...even "controversial things" like finding WMD in Iraq...because the much aligned MSM even reports on things that are controversial.

[Alexandra]

Ghost,

You drive me crazy with your constant defense of the media bias. What channels are you watching to be in such coockoo land. You say:

I'm still looking for where the MSM is applauding hisballa as liberating heros. I must have missed that.

Which is your misrepresentation of what I have actually said:

The people there should be horrified and disgusted at what Hezbollah are doing, and at the inability and unwillingness of their own cowardly Government to disarm Hezbollah, instead of allowing the MSM to portray Hezbollah as some kind of liberating heroes. Israel cannot be blamed for loss of life in these circumstances.

Just to clarify: We are watching every day Hezbollah being glorified by the Lebanese who are screaming for them and their bravery in what is now suddenly perceived to be 'the defense of Lebanon' by the Hezbollah.

Perhaps you need to watch a little more of CNN who are doing the interviewing on an hourly basis and come up with a fresh pro-Hezbollah Lebanese every minute of the day, propagating Hezbollah's fight for the supposed liberation of Lebanon from Israeli aggression (which up until July 12th meant the freeing of 3 Lebanese criminals, as Hezbollah's raison d'etre) Nic Robertson even had to apologize for the blatant Hezbollah propaganda he allowed the other day. We now no longer see any Israelis on TV, only one Lebanese after another screaming in support for Hezbollah, and condemning Israel.

So presumably either you have not read what I have said properly, which is a polite way of saying you are putting words into my mouth, and in your haste to come to the defense of your darling MSM misquoted me, or you still don't grasp the level of hold Hezbollah has in every pore of Lebanon, which is entirely the fault of the Lebanese Government who have allowed the monster to grow from within. Or do you disagree with that as well?

Perhaps you have seen any member of the Lebanese Government or their representative at the UN council condemn Hezbollah even remotely, even once, instead of quotes like this which come straight from the President Emile Lahoud:

myself built up this army following the civil war and integrated all the religious groups: Muslims, Christians and Druze. This army is there to secure internal peace, but it is not an army to fight a war. [...]

Naturally the strongholds of the resistance are not known. [...]

The exchange of prisoners has always worked perfectly in the past. [...]

Hezbollah enjoys utmost prestige in Lebanon, because it freed our country. All over the Arab world you hear: Hezbollah maintains Arab honor, and even though it (Hezbollah) is very small, it stands up to Israel. And of course Nasrallah has my respect. [...]

We have today around half a million Palestinian refugees in Lebanon, their birth rate is three times higher than the Lebanese. That is a time bomb. [...]

As I said: "The people there should be horrified and disgusted at what Hezbollah are doing, and at the inability and unwillingness of their own cowardly Government to disarm Hezbollah, instead of allowing the MSM to portray Hezbollah as some kind of liberating heroes.

But then the Lebanese do have a problem, although I have not heard them perceive it as such. We have heard how difficult it is to distinguish between Hezbollah and civilians. We have heard this from none other than the Lebanese Ambassador, who said on American television just the other week:

It is impossible to differentiate between Hizbullah and civilians in Lebanon. Hizbullah is everywhere in Lebanon, and has become part of Lebanese society.

[weekenderman]

Hmm, interesting that Max Lucado would also vehemently disagree with your views toward Israel, RL. Got any other pro-Zionist authors you'd like to promote? :)

[RL]

"It's Not About me" Max Lucado

maxlucado.com/inam

[weekenderman]

RL: Isn't it past your bedtime now? Does your mommy know you're still awake and on her computer?

[liquid]

BTW....check this out

Eshel and the head of the IDF's Operational Branch, Major General Gadi Eisnkot said the structure was not being attacked when it collapsed, at around 8:00 in the morning. The IDF believes that Hizbullah explosives in the building were behind the explosion that caused the collapse.

Qana building fell hours after strike

[liquid]

RL----liquid,

Thanks for reminding all of us that the "stiff-necked" and zionist Israeli jews are the only sinless and "perfect" human- beings on earth who are totally above: God's Law (The Decalogue), International Law, constructive criticism and correction; and never in need of daily confession and repentance before the One True and Living Creator God Almighty.
-------

I did no such thing! RL...if you truly believe such then why do you have to put words in other people's mouth to make your point? Guess you're not too convinced eh?

[RL]

liquid,

Thanks for reminding all of us that the "stiff-necked" and zionist Israeli jews are the only sinless and "perfect" human- beings on earth who are totally above: God's Law (The Decalogue), International Law, constructive criticism and correction; and never in need of daily confession and repentance before the One True and Living Creator God Almighty.

The zionist nation of Israel is a big joke. The problem is that the big joke is on US (USA taxpayers).

(to the tune of $3.2 billion in perennial and unconditional USA taxpayer handouts to the arrogant, big-bully,
and war-monger zionist panhandlers)

One of the primary reasons why the evil islamofascist terrorists hate us (USA) so intensely, is precisely because of the goals of morally-repugnant and repulsive organizations such as the corrupt, scandalous, and zionist spy-infested Aipac organization.

Don't ever listen to what the zionist representatives of the zionist republic of Israel say; just look at what they do to their Arab neighbors and fellow human-beings, with an intellectually-honest attitude (heart & mind).

"Only one life, 'twill soon be past;
Only what's done for Christ will last."

"You can observe alot by watching."
Yogi Berra

jewsagainstzionism.com

[jess1dering]

When I first heard about this latest Jewish " slaughter" they reported that a large %age of the victims were"youth". Shortly thereafter, they were children. I'd like to know the actual ages of those children.

[antimedia]

The Israelis already have the proof - read Alexandra's article and follow the links, fer cryin' out loud. Furthermore, they have cockpit video of rockets being launched from the area seconds before the strike.

There is no question that the Hezbollah criminals are deliberately endangering civilians for the express purpose of engendering international anger against Israel. The tactic is getting quite old, and less and less of us are feeling sympathetic toward the Arabs. It's one thing to have a legitimate cause. It's another entirely to put civilians in the crosshairs and then use them as negotiating tools.

The Arabs should be ashamed of themselves for supporting such foul, evil people.

[Kenny Pierce]

That's exactly the point, as I understand it.

[liquid]

Thanks Kenny...so basically, I am thinking its just gonna stop the air raids so any civilians can get out of the way.

[Kenny Pierce]

Liquid,

My understanding is that Israel has explicitly said that artillery and ground-troop action is not on hold.

[liquid]

Kenny---[sigh] Any time you guys spend on RL is too much time.
-------------------------

After reading RL's "Do you need to repent?" remark, I would say Kenny gives excellent advice!

[RL]

mac,

The abominable sin of zionism is a paragon of the sin of idolatry, and a total violation of the First Commandment (Not suggestion) of The Decalogue. Don't you need to repent ?

yeshgvul.org
couragetorefuse.org
refusersolidarity.net
newprofile.org

[Kenny Pierce]

[sigh] Any time you guys spend on RL is too much time.

[liquid]

Great contribution Mac Brachman!

May I ask anyone that might know...just because the air strikes have ceased does that mean everything will cease? Does it mean no more fighting on the ground also?

Might I also ask this...IF after investigation and there is proof of the terrorist firing rockets behind this building, and after warnings for all to get out of this area, will the world have a different outlook?

[mac Brachman]

Correction: The name for this organization was American Council for Judaism. Sincerely, Mac Brachman

[mac Brachman]

Dear liquid: Yes; they are suspending bombing for 48 hours according to AP which I learned via my browser's (Comcast) home page. I don't know who this "Dr." Vega is, but my thanks to the blog regulars for distinguishing between the Hebrew word Kfar (village) and the Arabic words meaning essentially inferior person. Not to be aware of this distinction bespeaks incredible ignorance, which never stops Israel-haters from mouthing off. Even a cursory familiarity with Middle East geography yields frequent acquaintance witht the word Kfar, meaning village, and not at all etymologically related to kaffir and its Arabic equivalents. Just what precisely is "Dr." Vega a doctor of? (Sorry to end a sentence with a preposition). If he's a medical doctor, will he give us the courtesy of his general geographical whereabouts so we can warn people to avoid him? If he makes the same careless/arrogant/overly self-assured errors in medical practice as he does in his "analysis" (I use the word loosely), then the local funeral homes in his area must love him.

Dr. Vega, RL...it's been a rough week for this blog.

Let me address RL for one second: what do you mean by a "traditional" Jew? Historical note: most Jews in the U.S. were anti-Zionist or neutral on the subject prior to WWII and the Holocaust, and the largest secular Jewish organization, the American Jewish Council (now defunct) argued strenuously against the establishment of a modern Israeli state through the 1930s and into WWII. Their slow response to the cataclysm facing European Jewry eventually led to a near-complete loss of credibility and the eventual collapse of the Council. My grandfather, Solomon Brachman, a Latvian Jewish immigrant who believed in assimilation and was a young(ish) man at the time, was a fully paid member of the Council but eventually left it and joined the other AJC's, the Committee and the Congress, which recognized the importance of a homeland for Jews. Who's a "traditional" Jew and who isn't? Is it up to RL and his ilk to dictate these things for everybody else?
Re: Neturei Kartei: they are an ultra-Orthodox splinter group which even the strictest Hasidim (e.g., the Satmars, the Lubavitchers, who don't get along with each other) who are about as representative of Jewish opinion as the late Syd Barrett was representative of responsible medication use. The NK believe in an Old Testament literalist interpretation of the notion of the coming of the Messiah and that no "legitimate" state of Israel can come into being until this happens. Their theoretical grounds for anti-Zionism certainly have nothing to do, theoretically, with either the traditional leftist/Marxist rejection of Zionism (in the writings of Marx, Lenin, and other "prophets" of Marxism, Jews do not constitute an oppressed or dispossessed nation, like, say, Black majorities in certain southern U.S. states, or Armenians, and therefore are not entitled, in Marxist theory, to "legitimate" national liberation/sovereignty) or the extreme Islamist view that the world is headed for, and will fall under, Islamic rule for all time.

RL and "Dr." Vega might think more clearly if they pulled their heads out of the southern orifices of their respective alimentary canals.

Sincerely, Mac Brachman

[liquid]

RL...I suppose from your post that you support the orthodoxed Jews against zionisms position?

BTW...didn't Israel decide to stop the bombing from the air for a couple of days?

[Ghost Dansing]

Oh come on Crusader...everybody knows the hisballa is there...they are even in Lebanon's government and take credit for pressuring Israel out of Lebanon the first time...everybody knows they shoot rockets at civilian populations in Israel, everybody knows that they abduct hostages for hostage exchanges...everybody knows they are bad people...It isn't a secret hidden by MSM deception or biased reporting.

You guys and your "MSM" hot-buttons...I just don't get it...there is even a UN resolution that says hisballa should disarm...and it's been widely reported in the MSM along with all the reasons why this is easier said than done...by the Israelies or anybody else.

There is no "debate", and you're not engaging the issue intellectually (intelligently) at all...just reacting with your gut...all emotions...

Get a grip...the situation S*CKS regardless of how you look at it, and even what you are saying suggests it is really NOT really an MSM issue.

ALL modern military forces, and terrorists understand the power of the media and actively attempt to manipulate it.

In war bad things happen...and sometimes to innocent people...everybody who has ever been involved in waging warfare knows this...

If you are looking for the MSM to be a one-sided propaganda apparatus, you have to talk to Karl Rove, 'cause that's what he want too.

This narrative is equally nonsensical:

"One element fueling the current crisis in Gaza is the ongoing failure of US corporate media coverage of Israel/Palestine. US policy, public opinion and mainstream media coverage of Israel/Palestine are all dangerously biased towards Israel. Media coverage both reflects and influences policy and public opinion. Media coverage of events in Gaza again illustrates how the US mainstream media privileges the Israeli narrative, and frequently ignores both Palestinian experiences and international law, providing the US public and policymakers with only part of the story."

So these guys think MSM favors Iraeli spin.

Check it out:

"On Sunday, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert admitted that he intended to commit war crimes in Gaza, telling his cabinet that he wanted “no one to be able to sleep tonight in Gaza”. Olmert thus officially acknowledged Israel’s policy of collectively punishing 1.4 million Palestinians, a violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention. But none of the US’ three leading newspapers - The New York Times, Washington Post and LA Times - reported Olmert’s statement, even though it was widely quoted around the world."

http://www.zmag.org/content/print_article.cfm?itemID=10521&sectionID=107

So who do I believe? I believe my eyes, and I read all the favorite whipping-boys of the MSM and get a pretty good feel for what's going on from various perspectives...because a good portion of American corporate media is Liberal...at least until Karl Rove has his way.

As I said, ALL modern militaries and terrorists seek to manipulate the message of the MSM...they actually have a tough time...however here is an authoritative document upon which to ponder, and as you read the MSM in the future, perhaps you to can see the agendas of all sides built into the "story" the MSM actually gets:

http://www.carlisle.army.mil/usacsl/publications/IP14-05.pdf

"U.S. military leaders have a cultural bias toward a kinetic solution in war that doesn’t fit this current wartime construct. This bias is exacerbated by an outdated COIN doctrine and an IO doctrine that is not necessarily correct (e.g., where does the media fit in?). Overcoming this bias requires an understanding of the kind of war we are currently engaged in. The United States focuses wartime efforts and resources toward the tactical level of war. **Turning the emphasis of war on its head (the insurgent view of war) makes the information element of power not only primary, but consumes resources and focus toward strategic vs.
tactical “combat;” a model the U.S. and coalition forces need to understand and adopt.**"

[RL]

Traditional Jews are Not zionists. Jews Against zionism (True Torah Jews) zionist Alert for July 30, 2006 is
Code Orange (High Alert Level). Current zionist activities and statements present an imminent threat to safety
and security.

Jewsagainstzionism.com

[liquid]

I am not sure if RL is supporting those words or just sharing that many 'orthodoxed Jews that are anti zionism' were doing alot of rallies in support of the palestianian cause! Perhaps that is a quote off one of those sites?

Maybe RL didn't make that clear...but then I could be wrong and RL is on that side of the bridge too....

Might be good if RL came back and clarified their post!

[weekenderman]

The only right action for redeemed, Bible believing, and true followers of The Messiah (The Lord Jesus Christ) is to totally Boycott the pagan and zionist republic of Israel.

How can you say that the only "right action" for "Bible-believing followers of Jesus is to do something that's not even supported by Scripture, so-called RL?

Did you know the author of Roaring Lambs, the book and movement from which you borrowed your moniker, would consider you a demonic anti-Semite?

Who are your favorite Christian authors? Your favorite news channels? Your favorite theologians? Where do you get all your anti-biblical thoughts?

[liquid]

Why does it suprise anyone that these terrorist use civilians? This ideology of hate in it's military mode of tactics thinks nothing of using children or women! They will not only use their own children but will use any other pawn to advance their goals! These cowards always hide behind children and will put a barrier of 'any child' between them and their targets.

All this shock is warped with thinking that Hezbollah and Iran give a hoot about any child! Remember...they would recruite any youth if it helped their cause and don't forget that suicide bombers are glorified in their minds! There is no value of a child when they can be used to fight the infidel! Remember that in Iran they will stone or hang innocent young women to keep fear in their population! This is a mentality that thinks it's their duty to strap bombs on their little children and will pay their families to sacrifice them for Allah! Ask yourself why there isn't any old bones and flesh of 'old timers' when it comes to blowing up cafes or buses! The youth is exploited for their political purposes! This is nothing new in for them! So why do people think that they care if innocent children on either side are hurt as long as it's used for their advancement? It's all icing on the cake for them! A child is either used as propaganda to gain sympathy or used as a human shield/bomb in their world, but the western world has a hard time with that and the terrorist know this and play on it at ever turn!

The real shock is how the world refuses to admit that it's Hezbollah and Iran's initiative start of all this that has gotten so many "innocent civilians" harmed on both sides anyway! Israel didn't just one day wake up and say, "We must blow up buildings for the fun of it!" War is hell and when the enemy are cowards and fighting around children or launching rockets from behind civilian buildings and they themselves wouldn't even think twice to use a mosque if they had to-- so the people being critical of Israel should not forget that Israel's enemy doesn't go by any rules of humanity engagement in their mentality! Why are people even considering that Hezbollah or Iran are decent in any way when it comes to this battle? I wish each person and each nation would just for one moment stop and think what they would do if this was happening on their borders and their soil! Imagine this ruthless cruel enemy tossing rockets into your cities! Imagine after all the appeasement you had done that the enemy still kidnapped your soldiers and the rockets kept flowing in! Sure you would want the fighting to stop but you would also have to admit to yourself that survival is on the table and if you don't take out most of their weapons and rocket launching positions then they will just get stronger and start this up on another day!

Sure...someone has to make some decisions here and it looks like Lebanon is going to get pressured even more now...they either stand up and fight against Hezbollah or they cry victimhood and blame Israel. It's down to which side are they going to be on! If they choose to go with Hezbollah and Iran then don't they become the enemy too?

Don't lose perspective on who started this! The world has to remember that Iran chose Hezbollah and Hezbollah chose Lebanon to do it's evil deeds. Israel is just trying to survive; as the target of all of them! God bless and protect all those that get in the way of that!

Israel has to do what it has to do to survive...bottom line! This war will affect us all in the future as we all fight this ideology that wants to dominate the entire world and as they want to do away with all "the infidels" and wipe Israel off the map! Don't forget who is orchestrating this force and what their motives are!

[weekenderman]

Gang: Being full of "them" (apologies) is better than being full of "it," I guess.

[RL]

The ECUSA and PCUSA should be praised and thanked for their Biblical, Godly, and conscientious policy of divestment in the arrogant-bully, "stiff-necked", and merciless war-machine government of the zionist republic of Israel. The only right action for redeemed, Bible believing, and true followers of The Messiah (The Lord Jesus Christ) is to totally Boycott the pagan and zionist republic of Israel.

Neturei Karta International, True Orthodox Jews United Against zionism, calls for an immediate and unconditional halt of the zionist bloodshed in Gaza and Lebanon.

nkusa.org
bigcampaign.org

[Gang of One]

Crusader says:

Dr Mengele, er I mean, Dr Vega, RL: people like you are starting to make me believe in demonic possession. You people are just plain creepy. (shudder).

I disagree. Even the devil makes sense. These people are bereft of any spirit good or evil. They are not even human, in my book. They are not even animals. They are abominations that even Lucifer is too pure to have had any consent in being a part of.

[Gang of One]

Yikes! That was Barry I should be thanking -- did not see the new post after Ghost's first; thought it was another by GD.
Again, another of my apologies ...